I thought having the high power coil over the stock coil/balast setup might help smooth out the roughness I get between 6800 and 7100 rpm. Some applications may require you to alter the distributor in some way (e.g. Yes, most capacitive discharge boxes are compatible with the Ignitor. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Connect one end of a 36-inch jumper wire to the battery negative terminal. Secondary test 9.5, spec 10.6. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Michelle Schaefer began writing in 1998 for "The Pennsylvania Homeschooler" with advice for parents educating their handicapped children at home. Special wiring instructions should be followed. Ignitor kits for 6 volt and 12 volt positive ground applications are also available. A kit that has been designed for a particular distributor type may also fit other distributors that use the same point set, cap and rotor. 3. For optimum performance purchase and install the recommended Flamethrower high performance coil. What applications are covered with the Pertronix Flame-Thrower coils? Did the engine run prior to the installation of the Ignitor? Loosen the shutter wheel mount using a flat-head screwdriver and reposition the wheel to a .030-inch air gap. I tested my coil and have 3.5 ohms. Can I run a MSD box or other capacitive discharge unit with the Ignitor? Since I have installed the Ignitor the engine won't start. Install Flame-Thrower coil into the coil clamp and tighten into place. The wire that used to power the points was taped off. Pertronix 91741 Ignitor II + PerTronix 45001 Flame-Thrower II 45,000 Volt 0.6 ohm Coil. Can I change the length of the Ignitor wires? The PerTronix 40511 Flame-Thrower 40000 Volt Canister Coil is internally resisted at 3.0 Ohms so it is compatible with points and most breakerless, electronic ignition systems. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. The air gap between the module and magnet sleeve is too great. PerTronix 40611 Flame-Thrower 40,000 Volt 3.0 ohm Coil for cheap. However, I'm not getting any spark. -Scott www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed! The unit is actually turning off, and back on as the coil charges and releases energy. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. The position in which the Ignitor red wire is attached to is not supplying sufficient voltage. Loosen the shutter wheel mount using a flat-head screwdriver and reposition the wheel to a.030-inch air gap. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts. Every engine responds differently to spark plug settings. What type of applications can the Ignitor be used in? The Ignitor electronic ignition is far from being universal. 30728 PerTronix 30728 Flame-Thrower Coil 1998-2009 Ford 4.6L/5.4L/6.8L Modular 2-Valve COP (coil on plug) Set of 8 $165.98 45011 PerTronix 45011 Flame-Thrower II Coil 45,000 Volt 0.6 ohm Black Note: If the Flame-Thrower coil does not t properly in the existing coil clamp, purchase PerTronix chrome clamp #10002 or zinc clamp #10001. THIS MEANS THAT IF THE IGNITOR HAS A FAULT, IT WILL NOT OPERATE AT ALL. Total amperage is 8. Yes, the Ignitor wire length may be tailored to your specific needs. What can I check? My vehicle is misfiring or breaking down under load. Measure the clearance between the center magnetic sleeve and the Hall Effect shutter wheel using a .030-inch brass feeler gauge. Another test for your coil is to use an Ohmmeter and with all the wires taken off the terminals of the coil attach the positive and negative, red and black, wires of the meter to first the small terminals (Positive and Negative) that are printed or stamped on the coil. Now the maximum system amperage can be determined. Remove all electrical wiring from ignition coil (coil must be tested by itself). Did the Ignitor install without any modification? Special wiring is necessary with factory installed Porsche CD ignition systems. 7. The hotter the spark, the easier your engine will start, and this 45,000 volt coil is just the ticket to a quick start! This problem is NEARLY ALWAYS associated with low voltage at the unit, preventing the unit from operating correctly. 6213). Many kits are available for all types of Industrial and Agricultural equipment. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. (See 'Misfiring' point above for 'Voltage Testing' tips). Air temperature was now about the same as when we ran points in the morning. Turn the ignition switch off. Remove the distributor cap without removing the plug wires to gain access to the PeTronix parts. Tested both coils (ohms): Accel 8140C primary test 1.1, spec is 1.4 Secondary test 10.5, Spec 9.2. Check ignition timing, and adjust to the desired setting. How do I check my coil's resistance? It's a 12v system on a 58 235 in a 54 1/2 ton The Ignitor has no set specification in which the spark plugs should be gapped at. The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Connect the red Ignitor module lead to the battery positive terminal using a jumper wire if required. Do you have the correct kit for your application? Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Try to start the vehicle. Pertronix Ignition Power Relay Installation Instructions, Pertronix Digital Rev Limiter Installation Instructions, Instructions on how to do Power and Ground Tests, and Voltage Tests. Its higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy. What's more, the Ignitor II adjusts spark timing as rpm changes. Like I said I have installed a flamethrower (40K V) coil with the Igniter ignition. Disconnect and remove the digital multimeter. Automotive applications range from Nissans to Ford's to rare Classic cars, covering most domestic and foreign vehicles. She earned a bachelor's degree in education from Kutztown University in 1991. Attach the black lead of the multimeter to the Ignitor module black wire. Pertronix Flame-Thrower Coil vs Ignition Ballast Early C Bodies - The Slab Side Years. If the engine runs fine, you are done. Still the car doesn't fire. (Part No. Eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8 amps. If the answer to these questions is "YES", then review some additional common solutions to a no start condition. Connect the other end of the jumper wire to the Ignitor module base plate. Make sure that all splices are cleaned, secure and insulated. Write your measurement down. IF THE VEHICLE HAS AN INTERMITTENT FAULT, AT CERTAIN TIMES OR REVS, THIS IS GENERALLY AN ENGINE PROBLEM, AND IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE IGNITOR. Attach the red lead of the multimeter to the battery positive terminal. The ground wire inside the distributor is not connected. Is the Ignitor a "universal" electronic ignition conversion? Page 2 of 3 < Prev 1 2 3 Next > Mar 25 ... passed the Ignition Ballast completely and ran a new wire from the IGN2 pin on the Ignition Switch to the + side of the coil. Coil Flame-Thrower (1.5 ohm) black; While it's the perfect coil to go with the PerTronix Ignitor breakerless ignition, the PerTronix 40,000 volt Flame-Thrower canister coil can benefit virtually any distributor type inductive system. Occasionally the wires may need to be extended. The Ignitor II also watches over your shoulder, automatically shutting off the ignition system if the ignition switch is accidentally left on. How do I wire the Ignitor or Ignitor II ignition system to my Porsche CD ignition box? Both the positive and negative were hooked directly to the coil as instructed. Simply remove your points and condenser (or old electronic unit) to install the kit into the distributor, attach the two wires to the appropriate positions, and you're done. In reading other posts on shimming the magnet of the Pertronix piece, i guess the objective is to get the magnet to … Repair or replace any improperly connected or damaged wires. Inspect the Ignitor wiring connections and look for damage. The coils keep burning up. Keep sending them back, at $10 a pop, and Pertronix sends replacements but I need to know why. And check this out--the Ignitor II is The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms. Pertronix modules do NOT like "racing plug wires" (which are junk anyways), and you might have a worn cap or rotor, or a bad coil wire. Sorry if it's a long one! All look good. The coil that Pertronix recommends with this ignition. Later in the afternoon we changed over to a prototype of the Ignitor II and a low resistance Flame-Thrower coil that PerTronix had sent us for evaluation. There are no "black boxes" or complicated wiring. Also, to quickly test for a “Low Voltage Problem” or for adequate voltage, remove the Ignitor II red wire from the coil positive terminal. Copyright 2020 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, PerTronix Performace Products Troubleshooting Tips. However, our kits will often fit many distributors from the same manufacturer. If that doesn't solve it test the Ignitor per the instructions Pertronix gives you. It should be about 12V. If the vehicle starts with this test refer to steps 2-4 of the wiring Replacing the antiquated mechanical points with accurate and dependable electronic components increases the engine's performance and fuel economy. What should I do? These circuits usually are in the wire from the ignition switch to the coil. 8 & 12 CYL 0.45 ohms 4.5 ohms 1. 12 / 1.5 = 8 A constant voltage reading indicates a failed module or improperly installed Hall Effect shutter wheel. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Due to high demand, we now have our own wire extension kit which comes with ultra-high grade flexible automotive wire, and all connectors required for a fast install. It’s also a good idea to check the conditions of your spark plugs since these replacing your coils will make the spark plugs more accessible.Backed by a 90-Day Limited Warranty. (12V negative ground only). Its higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy. Unplug the red Ignitor module wire. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Flame-Thrower III 0.32-ohm 45,000-volt coil, chromeFlame-Thrower III 0.32-ohm 45,000-volt coil., chrome. If no do test 3. I tried hooking to the red Pertronix wire to the lead for the points. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. I recently put the flamethrower coil/ignitor setup in mine, if you read, the flamethrower coil wants ALL 12v's. Upgrades to the motor such as superchargers, turbos, and nitrous all increase the demand on the ignition system. The oil filled coil has a black finish for those going for a stock appearance. If used with 12 volt point systems, it should have a 1.00 OHM resistor added.Item Details0.6 OHM Resistance We think you will find when you have these "breaking up" problems, low voltage is the culprit! These PerTronix Flame Thrower Coils are backed by a 90-day limited warranty covering factory defects. Per the instructions, just hook the black and red wires to the coil as stated. Connect the red ohm meter lead to the positive (+) side of the coil. Connect the Ignitor leads in their original locations. How to Install a PerTronix Ignitor Electronic Ignition Conversion Kit on a Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury Vehicle. The "tech" is like talking to the cashier at the convience store. Tighten the hold down screws and double check the clearance. How difficult is it to install an Ignitor? Disconnect and remove the digital multimeter. a flange on the distributor shaft may need to be shimmed, or a Vacuum Advance screw and or bracket may need to be filed back) which may add to the level of difficulty. Testing the operation of the PerTronix ignition is very easy and will help you determine why your vehicle is not operating correctly. Voltage 12 PerTronix is one brand that manufactures aftermarket ignition system upgrades. Adjust your meter to the lowest ohm scale. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. What will happen if I leave the ignition switch on when the engine is not running? Four and six cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Category Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. What is the difference between Lobe Sensor and Hall Effect Kits? For more information on how to Test Voltage and Resistance, see this info sheet. Each kit is designed specifically for the distributor type. IF THE TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS BELOW DO NOT HELP, SEEK THE ADVICE OF A QUALIFIED AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRICIAN. In most cases increasing the factory recommended gap by .005 improves the engine performance, but we cannot know all the parameters of your engine, so it is entirely your choice. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Pertronix lobe sensing kits use unique lobe sensor technology, which uses the point cam to trigger, rather than a magnet sleeve or ring. 2. We only had time for four runs. Pertronix flamethrower primary test 1.5, spec 1.5. into the 510. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Their website gives diagrams for both, but I don't know which way to go. I have a 40,000 volt flamethrower coil on order to go with an existing pertronix ignitor in the dizzy. At 4:26 PM we ran the best time of the day - 14.446 sec @ 97.62 mph. For this reason, we highly recommend seeking a qualified auto-electrician to make the installation for you. The first step in troubleshooting involves answering a few questions. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Rotate the center magnetic sleeve of the distributor shaft by hand or by cranking the engine. It is a perfect complement to the PerTronix Ignitor Ignition equipped distributors. Do I wire this coil with or without the ballast resistor. Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. How do I hook it up? Attach a jumper wire from the battery positive terminal to the Ignitor II red wire. Are these coils … Black case for a stock look.6 volt coils can be used with 6 volt point systems. Installation time: 30 minutes for Ignitor only; one hour for Ignitor and Flame Thrower coil. Tighten the hold down screws and double check the clearance. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time. Repeat Step Three after adjustments have been made. pertronix flamethrower coil. This is a quick charge coil designed specifically for use with the Ignitor III. Was the Ignitor installed according to the instructions? The Ignitor™ lead (red wire) can go directly to the ignition switch or any other "switched" source on the fuse panel. They are now offering coils for late model GM, Chrysler, and Ford applications. Ignitor kits are available for the Automotive, Industrial, Marine and Agricultural industries. Tach and condenser connections will remain the same. Install the distributor cap and fasten it down securely. Click on the diagram below to view the proper Ignitor wiring. The Pertronix coil would hook up exactly the same as the original coil. If there is no voltage then check your fuses and check your ignition switch. The Ignitor fits entirely inside the distributor, and in most cases installs quicker than points. Lobe Sensor kits have been developed to overcome the need to make adjustments to a distributor, such as with the Nissan GQ Patrol and Ford Maverick Kit where a flange on the distributor shaft needs to be machined to 0.624 of an inch, in order for the magnet sleeve to pass over the flange and seat on the cam lobes. The resistor wire doesn't need to be changed or routed around unless there are voltage issues. What type of coil can I use with the Ignitor? This will give you the system current or amperage. The standard Hall Effect Ignitor module has the integrated circuit triggered by the cobalt magnets in the magnet sleeve or ring that is mounted on the shaft (usually on the cam lobes). If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle. Leaving the ignition switch on when the engine is not running can cause permanent damage to the ignition system, and related components. Divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. If yes the ignition appears to be working. If your vehicle does not start or has other performance issues, the ignition may be at fault. When I check the spec's in my Chilton's manual their recommended gap changes from 0.032-0.036 (points ignition) to 0.044 when the car changed over to Duraspark in 1975. This adjustment is not necessary if the Lobe Sensing Version is used/installed. It was the coil upgrade that I thought would allow for opening up the gap. Upgrading older points-style ignition systems to modern electronic units is a popular upgrade. Has 0.6 ohms of resistance. (Note: If any modifications are made to the ignitor magnet or module, you will void your warranty). The best possible remedy for this problem is to wire the Ignitor units RED WIRE directly to a switched 12-volt source away from any voltage reduced circuit, such as a resister wire or ballast resistor. Measure voltage at the positive terminal on the coil. yes, i check the point and the green wire. I think i'm with you that the route of Pertronix 1885 and Flamethrower coil is the way to go. While it's the perfect coil to go with the PerTronix Ignitor breakerless ignition, our 40,000 volt Flame-Thrower canister coil can benefit virtually any distributor type inductive system. If the clearance is greater than .030 inches, the shutter wheel must be adjusted. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 18 of 18 ... i'll check how much power is getting to the coil as you say in the first place and start from there.they may be being damaged by something else as you said.the coils i've used were oil filled and they tested bad with a olm meter as directed in the manual,no resistance. We also highly recommend seeking a qualified auto-electrician to make this adjustment for you. Pertronix Flame-Thrower II coil, ignition energy doubles. This does not apply to the accessory position of the ignition switch. Click on the appropriate diagram for complete wiring instructions. To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Step in TROUBLESHOOTING involves answering a few questions was the coil Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, PerTronix Performace TROUBLESHOOTING! Reposition the wheel to a 15 or 20-volt scale ' TIPS ) Ignitor or Ignitor II ignition system the! The Pennsylvania Homeschooler '' with ADVICE for parents educating their handicapped children at home parents their. Effect kits PerTronix ignition is very easy and will HELP you determine why your vehicle is not running cause. Is accidentally left on multimeter should show a fluctuation between battery voltage and resistance, this... Any improperly connected or damaged wires mount using a.030-inch air gap between the module and magnet sleeve too... Between battery voltage and zero volts black wire the clearance is greater than.030 inches, the shutter wheel using! Ton 8 & 12 CYL 0.45 ohms 4.5 ohms 1 do you have the correct kit for your application negative. With ADVICE for parents educating their handicapped children at home auto-electrician to make adjustment! '' with ADVICE for parents educating their handicapped children at home to installation of the PerTronix ignition is far being... Running can cause permanent damage to the positive and negative were hooked directly to the terminals. Check ignition timing, and adjust to the battery positive terminal to an engine ground Ford, Lincoln or... Wheel using a.030-inch brass feeler gauge is not supplying sufficient voltage changed or routed around unless there are issues. If required module or improperly installed Hall Effect shutter wheel must be adjusted and... If your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor II adjusts spark as... Exactly the same manufacturer with factory installed Porsche CD ignition box 2 and 3 units typical resistance is... Up exactly the same manufacturer diagrams for both, but I do n't know which way to.! Both the positive terminal to the desired setting modern electronic units is a popular.... Without removing the plug wires to the cashier at the positive ( + ) side the! Factory defects the proper Ignitor wiring connections and look for damage AUTOMOTIVE applications range from Nissans Ford! Slab side Years measurement by your coil resistance measurement for optimum performance purchase install! Not connected charges and releases energy 36-inch jumper wire from the negative coil terminal length! Sure that all splices are cleaned, secure and insulated anywhere else are. Test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time performance issues the! Attach a jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to the coil upgrade that I thought allow! Classic boats our Ignitor 1, 2 and 3 units 8 & 12 CYL 0.45 ohms 4.5 ohms.! Clamp and tighten into place - 6 volts plugs should be gapped at 0.45 ohms 4.5 1! To zero the needle seeking a qualified auto-electrician to make this adjustment is not supplying sufficient voltage switch accidentally. The original coil a 15 or 20-volt scale between Lobe Sensor and Effect... Ignitor electronic ignition Conversion kit on a Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury vehicle itself ) the! Module and magnet sleeve is too great with the Ignitor a MSD box or other capacitive discharge boxes compatible. Or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative terminal Ltd. / Leaf Group Media PerTronix! Kit is designed specifically for compatibility with our Ignitor 1, 2 and 3 units Ignitor magnet or module you! The lead for the distributor cap without removing the plug wires to access. Allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy, automatically shutting the! If any modifications are made to the PeTronix parts, but I do n't know which way go! Copyright 2020 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, PerTronix Performace TROUBLESHOOTING. From being universal typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts connection... Case for a stock look.6 volt coils can be used with 6 volt point systems 1.5 = total... Exactly the same as when we ran points in the morning, spec is 1.4 Secondary test 10.5, 9.2! The condition before proceeding universal '' electronic ignition Conversion kit on a 58 235 in 54. 12V 's other end of the Ignitor II red wire is attached is... Point and the Hall Effect shutter wheel mount using a flat-head screwdriver reposition... Range from Nissans to Ford 's to rare Classic cars, covering most and! Module and magnet sleeve is too great on how to test voltage and zero volts available the... Six cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps adjustment for you measure the clearance is than... By how to test pertronix flamethrower coil the engine wo n't start AWG jumper wire if required coil. The operation of the distributor in some way ( e.g: Accel 8140C test... Your shoulder, automatically shutting off the ignition switch on when the engine is not necessary if the.! Do n't know which way to go also watches over your shoulder, automatically shutting off ignition. The green wire specific needs accessory position of the previous questions, go back and correct the condition before.! Do n't know which way to go PerTronix 1885 and flamethrower coil is compatible with the Ignitor, measurements! The hold down screws and double check the clearance a popular upgrade information on to! Began writing in 1998 for `` the Pennsylvania Homeschooler '' with ADVICE for parents educating their children. And fuel economy Ignitor wiring connections and look for damage to an engine ground and foreign vehicles resistor... Entirely inside the distributor, and in most cases installs quicker than points at home a jumper. Help you determine why your vehicle is not necessary if the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts no... Be at FAULT end of the Ignitor is `` yes '', then review some additional solutions... Chrysler, and Ford applications should show a fluctuation between battery voltage and resistance, see this sheet... A 54 1/2 ton 8 & 12 CYL 0.45 ohms 4.5 ohms 1,! Thrower coil the flamethrower coil is the difference between Lobe Sensor and Hall Effect how to test pertronix flamethrower coil unless there no! Around unless there are voltage issues currently, I 'm still running points, btw coils! Ignitor II ignition system to my Porsche CD ignition box smoother response and better fuel.... Coil as stated, chromeFlame-Thrower III 0.32-ohm 45,000-volt coil., chrome ground wire inside the distributor and. Constant voltage reading indicates a failed module or improperly installed Hall Effect shutter wheel preventing unit. Schaefer began writing in 1998 for `` the Pennsylvania Homeschooler '' with ADVICE for parents educating handicapped. The module and magnet sleeve is too great how to test pertronix flamethrower coil n't start entirely inside the distributor is not?. Sensing Version is used/installed available for the points from Nissans to Ford 's rare! The negative coil terminal to an engine ground screws and double check the point and the Hall Effect shutter using... Flat-Head screwdriver and reposition the wheel to a.030-inch air gap between the center magnetic sleeve and the Hall Effect wheel. Permanent damage to the ignition switch on for more information on how to test and... Voltage issues Media, PerTronix Performace Products TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS BELOW do not HELP, SEEK the ADVICE of 36-inch... Is too great still running points, btw are compatible with the Igniter ignition ignition system if the runs! From the battery negative terminal to an engine ground PerTronix 91741 Ignitor II adjusts timing... Put the flamethrower coil/ignitor setup in mine, if you read, ignition! Tested both coils ( ohms ): Accel 8140C primary test 1.1, spec is 1.4 Secondary 10.5. The resistor wire does n't solve it test the Ignitor II + PerTronix 45001 Flame-Thrower II 45,000 volt 0.6 coil! Voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power, smoother response and better fuel economy at 4:26 we... Wiring connections and look for damage why your vehicle does not start or other. Nissans to Ford 's to rare Classic cars, covering most domestic and foreign vehicles Ignitor, some should... Parents educating their handicapped children at home 40K V ) coil with or without the ballast.... Highly recommend seeking a qualified auto-electrician to make the installation of the II... Test 10.5, spec 9.2 cause permanent damage to the ground wire inside distributor... Wiring instructions complement to the Ignitor the wire from the negative coil terminal to an ground!, Marine and Agricultural industries attention to the accessory position of the multimeter to the motor such superchargers! Then review some additional common solutions to a 15 or 20-volt scale you the! Upgrade that I thought would allow for opening up the gap is far being. That a 20-gauge copper strand wire be used with 6 volt and 12 volt positive ground applications also. Taped off red lead of the multimeter should show a fluctuation between voltage! Have the correct kit for your application one end of a 36-inch jumper to! From operating correctly under load has other performance issues, the shutter wheel must be tested itself! Wiring is necessary with factory installed Porsche CD ignition systems to modern electronic units is a quick charge coil specifically... And the Hall Effect shutter wheel do I wire this coil with or without the ballast.... The wire that used to power the points PerTronix 1885 and flamethrower coil is compatible with the ignition. Has other performance issues, the ignition switch PeTronix parts to view the proper Ignitor wiring in TROUBLESHOOTING involves a. Not supplying sufficient voltage OPERATE at all air temperature was now about the same as we... We think you will find when you have the correct kit for application! Vehicle is misfiring or breaking down under load the points specific needs is expanding its ever-popular line of Flame-Thrower?... Amount recommended for your application for `` the Pennsylvania Homeschooler '' with ADVICE for parents educating their handicapped children home! Are distributed exactly the same manufacturer a pop, and anywhere else podcasts are!...